Wild Beasts
I am setting up at Ripley Grier Studios in New York City. There’s a huge window in the room staring at the Empire State Building, but all I pay attention to are the multitude of air conditioners hanging out the windows of the alley below. I’m all set up but I keep scurrying to make sure everything is perfect and I hear a British voice behind me. They look tired as hell, it’s obvious their first visit to New York was a busy one, going from interview to interview… photoshoot and then gigs at night. All week.
Thom tried to stay awake but his eyes say differently. They all just needed a nap, kinda wish I brought a blow up mattress for them. I think they were hoping the same thing. Nevertheless, they managed to give the goods in this interview. They talked about how they wrote the album, their take on songwriting, and their favorite albums of all time. These amazingly talented kids are in their early twenties but their sound resembles that of experienced veterans. Never making haste in their music, though not wasting time. Hayden talks about not wasting a bit of sound in their music. There’s no room for it, anyway.
Wild Beasts from IndieView TV on Vimeo.
For The Foxes
For The Foxes – IndieView TV from IndieView TV on YouTube.
“The band’s harmonies develop a rhythm that lures listeners into its latticed patterns and wavy swells in a most beguiling way.” -Susan Frances
Nick Dungo is the frontman for the band For The Foxes. In this interview he tells you how to write songs tailored specifically for the radio, and to get the major labels and producers wanting to sign you.
Here is a summary of part of the interview:
The Answer
In order to develop a genre or or style you need to have an answer to each single or song on the album.
You want to make all the songs relatable, you don’t want to confuse the listener.
You’ve got to know:
- Who you’re selling to
- What you’re gonna be doing
- What kinda fans you’re gonna have
- You don’t want them to be confused
Once you confuse the listener, it will make them a disloyal fan, or not want to completely back you up because they’re unsure of where you’re going.
You have to know exactly what you’re trying to put across to the fans. Who’s going to be listening to it, and can they understand it on the first listen? If they can’t understand it, then you’re doing something wrong. They must understand the hook and what the song is about
The Thread
A certain similar element that intertwines the whole album together.
Analyzing a song
He wanted a “triplety feel” song. Listen to “If You Seek Amy” by Britney Spears.
- Intro
- Lofi vocal, chorus, lala
- Shimmery bell
- Electronic bass drums and snare
- Hi-hats bring in triplety feel right off the bat
- Verse
- Synth from intro comes down and becomes lo-fi
- Electronic bass drums stay solid
- Timpani comes in but went down
- Main vocals double
- Background vocal comes in the second half of first verse
- Chorus
- Solid quarter notes on bass drum and hi-hat
- Snare on two and four
- Synth from the intro is back in
- Higher synth doing accents and mimicking the chromaticized vocal
- Extra
- Marking down what noises you hear
Then, apply it to your own songs.
Average person doesn’t know what they hear, they just know what makes them feel good.
The only way to make in this business, is to mimic the best and what the producers are doing. When you present to them a produced set of songs you made on your own, they will lose their [unspeakable]s over it.
Download the mp3 here:
IndieView – For The Foxes – Episode 1
Delorean
I can tell Delorean loves to write music. Ekhi Lopetegi, the singer and bassist, is always working on music. If it’s not one of their songs, they are remixing someone else’s. I called him up for the interview and he’s in the middle of remixing something new. I always wondered how to get the tracks of the song to do a remix, Ekhi told me you just ask the band. Sounds easy enough, now you know what I’m gonna be doing with all my free time.
We talk about how Delorean wrote the (still unnamed) new album, and the huge change it’s making from the AyrTon Senna EP. My favorite Ekhi quote, “If less is more, imagine how much “more” can be.”
Enter Delorean.
http://myspace.com/deloreandanz
http://www.twitter.com/deloreandanz
http://desparrameeeee.blogspot.com/
Neon Indian
Alan Palomo is an altruistic individual. I could tell he was a charmer from the first minute of meeting him. I wonder how many girlfriends he has. My favorite type of person is the person that puts smiles on faces wherever they go, bringing a good vibe into any room they walk into. I feel that’s what Alan is.
He laughed at all my stupid jokes, he made everything I said seem like the coolest thing ever. Plus he’s a great musician. And whereas some musicians have problems putting their thoughts about music into words, Alan doesn’t miss a beat. I ask him a question and he jumps right into a five minute answer, as if he knew what I was going to say before I said it.
He taught me alot about writing music, and showed me that writing a song is like having a party. You’ll see what I mean. Click play.
Download the mp3 here:
IndieView – Neon Indian – Episode 3
http://www.myspace.com/neonindian
http://www.twitter.com/neonindian
The Antlers
If I can say one thing about Peter Silberman, it would that he is a real nice guy. I also see the relation with his personality and his music, a bit soft-spoken with deeper things lying underneath. He tells just enough to keep you interested for more, without giving away too much.
The one thing I took away from Peter while talking to him is that I can feel more comfortable to write lyrics now. I never had a knack for writing them, as I always felt ‘cheesy’ or as if I was contacting a part of myself that was too ‘emotional’. Don’t gotta get cheesy. I know that getting vulnerable in your lyrics is what makes them good, and what makes them relatable to others. And that’s the goal, isn’t it?
Download the mp3 here:
IndieView – The Antlers – Episode 2
http://www.antlersmusic.com/
http://www.myspace.com/theantlers
Menomena
Danny Seim is the drummer from Menomena, he is also a drumming genius. Not for his technicality, though has that; nor for his energy and use of dynamics, though he has those as well. I think Danny Seim is a drumming genius because he knows where to put what. Drum beats fit at the perfect place at the perfect time. He is not like every other “indie” drummer you see that plays the same beat over and over. He’s an artist with the drums as a pianist is an artist with his keys. He gives some magically delicious tips for musicians on songwriting. My favorite part? The DFC Litmus Test.
Confused? Read on…
Danny Seim: Thanks for your interest in interviewing us for your website. I’ll do my best to answer any questions you might have via email.
IndieView: Thanks so much! Feel free to answer the questions as MEATILY as youd like.. full of meat. Here’s the first question…
What do you think it is that makes something catchy? What is it in music that makes something “good” as opposed to “bad?” Hypothetically, could someone follow some method and come out with a great song just by following certain steps?
Danny: Great way to start the interview… I was all ready to cut and paste one of our increasingly boring answers to the The Dreaded Muppets Question, and you totally flipped the script on me! So, here goes. It’s extremely difficult to pinpoint the exact formula for making something (or for avoiding making something) “good”, “bad”, or “catchy”. People’s response to music is such an individually specific thing. I’m sure someone out there (with a far greater grasp on music theory than I) knows the exact equation for writing something that will resonate with a huge, multi- genre-appreciating audience. One person to talk to would be Max Martin, who most recently penned Kelly Clarkson’s “Since U Been Gone”. Actually, that would have been a much better way to start the answer to your question. Give me another try here… Ahem, Kelly Clarkson’s “Since U Been Gone (SUBG)” is the best example of a recent song that not only blurred the line between fans of different music genres; it also blurred the line between what is essentially good and bad about modern pop music. Okay, so now I have to attempt to follow that up with some kind of rational evidence? Let me listen to the song again really quick. Let’s see… Which version do I pick on my iTunes here… Live in Sydney? Performed “In the Studio” for AOL roadband? Live on the 2005 MTV Awards? Performing on Saturday Night Live 02/12/05: Season 30, Episode 12? The “Rolling Stone Magazine’s Original” version? The “Kidz Bop” children singing version? For the purpose of this answer, I should probably just stick with Ms Clarkson’s album version (which was originally intended to be recorded by Hilary Duff but her vocals were ultimately deemed unworthy. Thank God).
Now I’ve just finished listening to that song for the trillionth time and yes, with my anti-irony goggles firmly in place, I still have to concede that SUBG is brilliant. In a weird sort of way though. Not “weird” like Jandek or Animal Collective. And not “brilliant” like um (playing it safe here), The White Album. SUBG is brilliant because it defies being pigeonholed into what I normally would deem brilliant. Not that I’m some definitive judge of What All Ye Shall Consider Brilliant or anything. I’m just talking about the illegally downloaded shit that’s on my freaking iPod here. SUBG is brilliant because I can fit my mood around it, instead of having to fit it around my mood. SUBG is brilliant because it is still listenable after being severely overexposed (see multiple versions in above paragraph). Most of all, SUBG is brilliant because it remains an amazing song after being performed by a girl who lucked into a career when Americans voted her the winner of a prime time televised talent show and who is now on a giant corporate blood sucking major label after spending zero hours “sweating it out” in smelly unattended dive bars like the rest of us “credible indie artists” trying to “pay our dues” by actually writing our own music instead of hiring some songwriting team with a horrific name like The Matrix for millions of dollars so that we can actually sell more than a few hundred CD’s and thus afford to go on big tours in fancy plush buses while praying that our original fanbase doesn’t scream “sellout!” and eventually come to hate us like Liz Phair… I could go on for hours about why everything Kelly Clarkson represents is wrong, wrong, WRONG… Then I listen to her song again. And all of these ethical speedbumps dissolve into a beautiful, computer-tuned vocal melody generously layered over perfect chord- changing guitars with just the right amount of cymbals mixed in to rock you into a state of slightly-embarrassed euphoria. I digress.
IndieView: I like that you mention Kelly Clarkson because most alternative musicians would always be against some pop song, but I have a firm belief that people should not bias towards genre, but the music that perverts the genre. Anyway, I guess the next best question to ask would be: What is your songwriting process/method? And is it more premeditated or spontaneous?
Danny: Brent wrote a simple computer program called Deeler that allows the three of us to simultaneously write and record spontaneously. It basically starts with a metronome click, and we pass the mic around the room to each of our instruments and play to the beat for a few measures. Deeler automatically loops the recording and we can then take turns layering more and more loops of different instruments on top of the original loop until we’ve got a good collage of sound going. One of us then takes all of these individual loops apart on a separate occasion and rearranges them into a more linear song format, usually adding vocals and melodies in the process. We all then re-learn the song in the newly arranged format and add it to our catalogue. The process starts out spontaneous and ends up premeditated… If that makes any sense.
IndieView: I have this belief that some melodies are made and some are meant to be discovered, in other words, they have always been there, floating around waiting for someone to find it and have it heard, it gives that feeling as if you’ve heard it before, like deja vu except with your ears. That is what I strive for when making music. The Police had a knack for doing it (So Lonely, Every Little Thing), the chorus of Come Together by The Beatles, or the chorus to Bodies by The Smashing Pumpkins (”..Love is suicidddee..”) are some examples that where I hear it. Am I crazy or is this something that other musicians hear? If so, do you try to achieve this “always been” sound with your music?
Danny: That’s really an interesting belief. I’ve never really put much thought into it. I guess you could say that one of our goals as a band is to create that “always been” sort of melodic sound you described. It’s definitely something to strive for, but sometimes it’s best when it just happens without putting any sort of formula (like we talked about before) into it.
It probably also has a lot to do with the way in which you write your music. I’ve never had much luck writing lyrics and a melody first and then adding chord progressions. I’m always impressed when I hear someone saying something romantic like they dreamt the melody, or the melody “just came to them” as they were walking along a deserted beach. I have a hard time believing that I’ve come up with an original melody unless I’ve first convinced myself that the music underneath this melody is somewhat original.
Now that we’re living fifty years past the birth of rock and roll, it’s becoming more and more difficult to pull melodies out of the air and have them sound completely unique and true. It’s hard not to wonder what it would have been like to be writing rock songs in the early 60s. As inarguably talented as the Beatles were, and even though they obviously weren’t the first artists to write a pop melody, they composed their music in an era where it was much easier to put a good vocal tune to a good instrumental arrangement and have it sound brilliantly groundbreaking.
IndieView: What are the goals you have in your writing, aside from “making the best thing you can,”? What are your goals for an entire album? Some concept, a set of great songs, must they be totally congruent with each other to be considered an album or at least hold some connection to eachother, or not at all?
Danny: (sorry for the delay on this one – we’re finally moving into the final stages of mixing this new record!), When we first started writing this upcoming record, Brent said something along the lines of, “If any song on this CD doesn’t make the listener want to Dance, Fuck, or Cry, then it’s not worth releasing”. We sort of joke about it now, but I’ve realized that it’s a pretty darn good way to judge any album in your record collection: The DFC Litmus Test… You heard it here first.
It’s hard though, because there are all sorts of individual levels of D, F, or C that a song can inspire within the listener. Who’s to say how little of each of these levels warrants a song’s omission from the album’s final tracklist? That’s the sort of intense stuff that we’re dealing with now. A lot of bands have nasty heroin habits or problems with the authorities. Menomena worries about not making people want to copulate while sobbing and doing the Macarena.
Best,
Danny
Fog
Fog is done now. However, Andrew Broder is a musician, and musicians don’t stop. He is doing other things. But this interview happened three years ago when I was obsessed with his Hummer EP. I still consider that album one of my favorites, there’s such a raw element to it. He banged on pots and pans on a song about a baby, using words that a baby would use. Another song incorporated an old typewriter as a percussive instrument, these are the ideas that innovative musicians do. In fact, I’m gonna go pull up that album right now and listen to it… I miss it. Meanwhile, read this interview. You’ll learn something.
IndieView: What do you think it is that makes something catchy? What is it in music that makes something “good” as opposed to “bad?” Hypothetically, could someone follow some method and come out with a great song just by following certain steps?
Andrew Broder: An easily memorized pattern of notes or rhythm, or a line resonates with you somehow…Something that seems familiar upon the first time hearing it… I don’t know… there are things that I find catchy that other may not, the right kind of black metal blastbeat for example, but also something like a Flaming Lips line will be stuck in my head for days… it varies…
What is it in music that makes something “good” as opposed to “bad?”
I don’t really believe in those terms, everybody’s outlook is so wildly different, or a lot of people’s anyway, that for me to judge good or bad is a waste of time… Of course, for myself, I have internalized standards of what appeals to me and what doesn’t, but even in what I would call bad music, there is probably some good to be found and vice versa… There are of course, obvious exceptions to this, such as The Eagles or Trip-hop music, but you understand what I mean.
Hypothetically, could someone follow some method and come out with a great song just by following certain steps?
Sure, it happens all the time. I think everyone has a method. Even the earlier fog stuff which sounds totally haphazard and ramshackle had a method. Motown records had a formula and that music is some of the best ever created. Anthony Braxton has a method. Timbaland has a method…Mostly, everyone on earth has some sort of method for everything that they do, I would imagine.
IndieView: Hummer is one of my favorite CDs to listen to, everything about it flows beautifully. What I want to know is, how do you think of these things both melodically (ex. changing from major to minor during Melted Crayons) and instrumentally (ex. use of typewriters(?) during the end of Cockeyed Cookie Pusher). Is all this something planned, like, “I think I’m going to do this for the next song,” or more of a spontaneous thing that comes to you during writing? Whatever the case, could you give one instance? Take me through an example of how you wrote something.
Andrew: Generally, it has been pretty spontaneous with stuff like that. For example, the typewriter in Cockeyed Cookie Pusher… I happened to have a typewriter sitting next to me, and needed some percussion, and it was as simple a choice as that, really. And I suppose after the fact, little things like that have a nice little metaphorical twist to them, i.e. the song is sort of a love letter, and so the typewriter idea sort of works thematically. Things have a way of working themselves out like that….
As far as choices having to do with chord changes, melody, harmony, etc, its a mixture of much self-editing and moving things around and adding notes here and there until it suits me right. I normally begin by trying to rip off something, and then changing enough about it to make it my own. But yeah, generally speaking what I do will always have both worlds, that of planned out composition and that of improvisation and collage.
IndieView: It’s funny because I’ve done the exact thing with kind of ripping off a melody, then totally reforming it to my own thing. It seems all we need is some groundwork to get the ball rolling.
Anywho…
I have this belief that some melodies are made and some are meant to be discovered, in other words, they have always been there, floating around waiting for someone to find it and have it heard, so it gives you that feeling as if you’ve heard it before, like deja vu except with your ears. That is what I strive for when making music. The Police had a knack for doing it (So Lonely, Every Little Thing), the chorus of Come Together by The Beatles, or the chorus to Bodies by The Smashing Pumpkins (”..Love is suicidddee..”) are some examples where I hear it.
Am I crazy or is this something that other musicians hear? If so, do you try to achieve this “always been” sound with your music?
Andrew: Definitely, this exists. I think its a matter of musicians using melodic ideas and scales that have been around for centuries and recycling them, reinventing them, changing their context… but I felt this when I heard Albert Ayler for the first time, that total newness but simultaneously, total familiarity. Yeah, if a song or a sound totally hits you and gives you goosebumps, it is probably triggering some tiny memory or image that has been buried deep in your skull for a long time, and then releases it… it’s very exhilarating when that happens…